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31
Posted by:
EVH28 17/01/2008 at
09:59
I know I'm way behind the original point but I've only just read it & it's just like my own experience.
I've experienced terrible problems trying to manage behaviour with two groups in the same year & just like I was advised to do, I asked the HOY for support. However their behaviour didn't improve and because the HOY got sick of me complaining about his year group, he complained about me. Even though I'm an NQT it was made clear to me that the bad behaviour was my responsibility and sometimes even my fault.
As a result of this I don't seek help from the HOY and am just experimenting with BM strategies.
Also, I had an observation with one of these problem groups and was told that the behaviour wasn't good enough & if they're like that when there's another member of staff in the room then what are they like when I'm on my own? A fair point but I can't help but think "why do you think I complained about them so much!!!"
Anyhoo...
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32
Posted by:
muso2 17/01/2008 at
10:00
Jane the stressed - I sympathise - I've certainly felt pressure at times to give less sanctions, but at the same time, within the school behaviour system the obvious thing is to give a sanction in order to be consistent.
Don't feel guilty for following the rules you have been told to follow!
Although, I think it's also worth thinking about what you would do if there were no sanction systems to follow. How would you manage behaviour?
People who don't give many tend to use lots of preventative strategies.
Praise praise praise (hard sometimes, but being determined to see the positive side of kids and assuming they're on-side really helps)
Coolasacucumber's ideas are great and worth considering which would work for you.
And read Bill Rogers 'you know the fair rule' an interesting and very pragmatic approach to behaviour.
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33
Posted by:
Dodat 17/01/2008 at
12:57
"Interesting. There must be hundreds of books and countless articles about the benefits of forming positive relationships with our youth"
That is what my post (12) was refering to, Magic...all research should be treated critically..
As for your attack, I am not a teacher, but a former PGCE student who came saw, and went er no thankyou.
However, I am now involved in youth work ( post-16) and I will say this;
Teachers simply do not have the time to form the kind of relationships with difficult pupils that are needed to resolve issues. I use the term issues because a lot of their behaviour is not the result of educational problems but domestic ones.
These young people need a lot of time, in order to form relationships with adults, because their background is such that adults are not to be trusted, because adults are the source of their woes. When I mean time, I mean one to one time, in which they as individuals feel valued, as in hours a week...
There are also young people who wanted school to be a refuge from the choatic domestic environments, but unfortunately many schools find it difficult to be those places in the current educational climate. As a result they do join the 'pack' and act up, the young people I am currently involved with have expressed that they had wished that their teachers had been stricter at school and given them a more structured environment, that would have given them a sense of 'safety', yes a lot of them say they didn't feel safe at school.
The reason I left my PGCE because the structure and policies that is the school do not allow our most needy young people to benefit, emotionally or educationally.
The reason being is that education policy is so focussed on educational acheivement and disguising discipline problems by punishing schools whose exclusion and suspension figures are too high, so that league tables look good and government ministers can produce glowing sound bites.
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Sorry but I refuse to believe we don't have time to improve relationships with our most difficult and vulnerable children. If I did I would just give up.
I do know it's difficult - we are under incredible pressure and our accountability is tied to student success whilst battling against the draw of a dysfunctional society and often with little or no support - either from parents or those in power.
However, that doesn't mean it's impossible and it doesn't mean we give up.
Try this...
Spend just 3 minutes a day for 3 weeks focusing on one particularly difficult pupil. In those 3 minutes focus only on BUILDING a relationship with him/her - no sarcasm, no judgement, no corrective language, just caring support and interest in them as a person.
It will difficult at first and you'll be met with the usual negative responses. But keep going.
Start by finding out his/her interests, passions, hobbies, dreams etc. because without that information you don't get very far. Then concentrate on being interested in them as people. There are lots of tips for building realtionships very fast on my site and I have never known them fail with any pupil I've taught.
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35
Posted by:
Malu 17/01/2008 at
16:27
So, you build a good relationship, you chat during bus duty, you smile in the corridor, you ask after hobbies - you build up a rapport.
THEN, they come into your class and expect to get away with poor behaviour because they have a 'relationship' with you. Or they go off on a tantrum because you don't treat them differently.
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Yes Malu. I think that will be your experience.
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Yes Malu. I think that will be your experience.
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38
Posted by:
betea 17/01/2008 at
17:53
Garyconyers I would hope if you are an acting police orficer you will learn a little about disorders such as attachment. A child with this sort of disorder can be superficially charming for a newcomer - all part of the condition, sometimes it needs a certain trigger.
Oldandrew it saddens me that you have no understanding of the needs of children, even Maslow understood the need for security etc in order to achieve. Perhaps these disorders are phsychological and do not fit your definition of medical. I however know for a fact that brain operation can show up on brain scans and there are documented scans of the brains of children with these sorts of problems showing that the brain is not working in the 'normal' way. It is in 'medical' dictionaries as a conditon and is recognised by the medical profession thus making it medical.
I take great offence to the comment of Roumanian orphanage children - this is a very real problem for children of abuse or neglect from wherever in the world. I really hope you are not teaching anymore and am thankful that more enlightened teachers are around (and perhaps trained in more uptodate methods and ideas). I have no intention of continuing with this thread as I find your comments offensive. I would be happy to continue a conversation like this with anyone who would like to learn or even listen to a point of view that is not there own only.
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"Try this...
Spend just 3 minutes a day for 3 weeks focusing on one particularly difficult pupil. In those 3 minutes focus only on BUILDING a relationship with him/her - no sarcasm, no judgement, no corrective language, just caring support and interest in them as a person."
Which part of "appeasement is a slap in the face for all the good kids" didn't you understand?
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Teaching Blog at: http://oldandrew.edublogs.org
Latest entry: 15/1/2008
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"Oldandrew it saddens me that you have no understanding of the needs of children"
Only in Britain could somebody arguing for applying the rules consistently to all children be accused of not understanding their needs.
"even Maslow understood the need for security etc in order to achieve. Perhaps these disorders are phsychological and do not fit your definition of medical."
My point about "medical" and "psychological" were really about your claims that it was a form of brain damage and therefore the child wasn't responsible for their behaviour.
Do you think I haven't taught kids who had been abused and neglected and had developmental issues as a result? Of course I have. However, I have seen what happens to kids like that when they are told they are different and aren't responsible for their own acions, it's not pretty and nobody gains from it.
I will stick with what I said before, children are either responsible for their actions or they are insane, there is no middle ground.
"I however know for a fact that brain operation can show up on brain scans and there are documented scans of the brains of children with these sorts of problems showing that the brain is not working in the 'normal' way."
Where is this documented? And in particular where is the evidence that this is due to damage to the brain?
"It is in 'medical' dictionaries as a conditon and is recognised by the medical profession thus making it medical."
Which medical dictionaries list it as a condition that school age children have?
"I have no intention of continuing with this thread as I find your comments offensive."
Funny how people find a reason to drop out of the discussion of a "medical condition" when you start asking for "medical evidence".
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Teaching Blog at: http://oldandrew.edublogs.org
Latest entry: 15/1/2008
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