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More good news about the Diplomas

Last post 18/04/09 at 23:36 by planetx, 48 replies
Post started by fortuneteller on 07/04/09 at 15:51

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  • violetriga avatar
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    Posted by: violetriga 16/04/2009 at 15:28
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    fortuneteller:

    2. VioletRiga - There is no indication that any of the DIplomas don't comply with QCA standards critieria. Will you be recruiting new students to these other IT courses in September knowing that there is a problem with them?
    Will you tell your students that they could choose to study the IT Diploma - or will you try to put them off?

    Where is data logging in the GCSE coursework?  Oh, so that course doesn't meet the QCA standards criteria?  Judge the OCR Nationals by the updated standards and it meets pretty much everything.  Anything not met is easily fixed with a little teacher around the topics.  Of course, that is all just one aspect of the report you hold so dear - I look forward to similar reports bemoaning the GCSE equivalence of the Diploma.  Further, I doubt that students will enjoy the business bore of the Diplomas in comparison with the OCR Nationals.
  • McDiploma avatar
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    Posted by: McDiploma 16/04/2009 at 22:23
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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8002876.stm

     

    Diplomas: RIP
  • fortuneteller avatar
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    Posted by: fortuneteller 17/04/2009 at 07:42
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    violetriga:
    Where is data logging in the GCSE coursework?
    You seem to have taken an answer and assumed that the question it was addressing was whether the IT Diploma complied with requirements for ICT at key stage 4.

    This is quite an interesting question in itself. The Diploma wasn't designed to meet ICT requirements for all pupils to use ICT at key stage 4. It was designed as a broad learning experience and a specialist route into the IT industries.
    If students were able to make use of the (considerable) ICT skills they had acquired at key stage 3, across each of their studies at key stage 4, then with a bit of coordination they could achieve their entitlement to developing their ICT Capability at this level.

    Many schools are currently pushing all pupils through one of the ICT courses that Oftsed criticises, not so much to ensure an entitlement to ICT Capability, but to ensure that the school gets it easy points scores. 
    This often results in most of the school's IT equipment not being available for other subject teachers to use.

    The model to aim for here I would suggest, is for a smaller number of pupils to study IT at a specialist level at key stage 4 (and the IT Diploma was designed to do this) - with all pupils making use of ICT across all of their subjects to develop ICT capability, as well as advance their learning through the medium of ICT.

    What this takes is for ICT teachers to abandon low quality ICT courses for all, to promote high quality specialist learning for particular pupils using the IT Diploma route, and to become less territorial in ensuring that all pupils have good quality ICT experiences when learning in their other subjects.
  • djphillips1408 avatar
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    Posted by: djphillips1408 17/04/2009 at 07:57
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    fortuneteller:
    a specialist route into the IT industries
     

    HA Ha ha ha ha ha 

    fortuneteller:
    The model to aim for here I would suggest, is for a smaller number of pupils to study IT at a specialist level at key stage 4 (and the IT Diploma was designed to do this) - with all pupils making use of ICT across all of their subjects to develop ICT capability, as well as advance their learning through the medium of ICT.

    So now you are saying that we should teach ICT cross curricular. You wanted a statement from me to show how naive and idiotic you are - well there it is.Do you have any idea about how much damage is done by History teachers insisting Y9 do their newspaper articles on the great fire of London in Word rather than DTP? How others who claim to know a bit about ICT undermine everything we strive to achieve by setting targets so low in the qaulity of output expected. You are completely bloody clueless and I will follow JBs advice and give up now. There is no point carrying on, you have just lost any tiny amount of respect that I may have had for you. You must be nothing but a troll and if that is the case then what drives someone to spend so much time trying to wind other people up? Sure you have achieved it but what on earth is in your mind to give up your time to do such a thing. It is so very sad.

     
  • fortuneteller avatar
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    Posted by: fortuneteller 17/04/2009 at 08:10
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    Oh dear. I seem to have touched a nerve.

    What do others think about the "damage" that history teachers do by being allowed to use Word in their teaching? And presumably science teachers, maths teachers etc.

    Should we ban subject teachers from ever using ICT in case they "set targets so low in the quality of output expected"?

    Hang on a bit. Wasn't that what Ofsted has just criticised a huge number of ICT teachers from doing by putting their students through low quality ICT courses at key stage 4?
  • violetriga avatar
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    Posted by: violetriga 17/04/2009 at 08:50
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    fortuneteller:
    violetriga:
    Where is data logging in the GCSE coursework?
    You seem to have taken an answer and assumed that the question it was addressing was whether the IT Diploma complied with requirements for ICT at key stage 4.

    This is quite an interesting question in itself. The Diploma wasn't designed to meet ICT requirements for all pupils to use ICT at key stage 4. It was designed as a broad learning experience and a specialist route into the IT industries.
    If students were able to make use of the (considerable) ICT skills they had acquired at key stage 3, across each of their studies at key stage 4, then with a bit of coordination they could achieve their entitlement to developing their ICT Capability at this level.

    So you're saying that the Programme of Study is not met by the Diploma and should instead be covered in other subject areas?  You believe that History teachers, to use the example above, could actually deliver the sections not covered?  Ridiculous suggestion.

    The whole point of me raising this point is that these courses you hate so much were bemoaned in part because they don't meet the PoS, yet neither does the Diploma.  You want to bring in cross-curricular ICT to fix the Diploma?  Well take that same suggestion for these other courses and it'll address the same issues.

    And as I previously noted, you continue to slag off "low quality ICT courses" in an attempt to promote the Diploma.  We totally understand that you don't like them but it's getting to be quite laughable that your argument is now boiling down to "it must be good because it's not OCR Nationals/DIDA".
  • cantona avatar
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    Posted by: cantona 17/04/2009 at 08:54
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    fortuneteller:

    Oh dear. I seem to have touched a nerve.

    What do others think about the "damage" that history teachers do by being allowed to use Word in their teaching? And presumably science teachers, maths teachers etc.

    Should we ban subject teachers from ever using ICT in case they "set targets so low in the quality of output expected"?

    Hang on a bit. Wasn't that what Ofsted has just criticised a huge number of ICT teachers from doing by putting their students through low quality ICT courses at key stage 4?

     

    Are you a teacher?

    I sincerely hope not, as your command of the English language is appalling. 

  • fortuneteller avatar
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    Posted by: fortuneteller 17/04/2009 at 09:37
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    violetriga:
    So you're saying that the Programme of Study is not met by the Diploma and should instead be covered in other subject areas?  You believe that History teachers, to use the example above, could actually deliver the sections not covered?  Ridiculous suggestion.

    I think that it is many times more important that pupils use ICT appropriately across all their subjects whenever it can improve their learning of that subject. Subject teachers have complained for years of the fiefdoms that are ICT departments preventing them from making use of ICT in their subject. Now that the Ofsted report is out it is a good time to look for solutions to this problem.

    The fact is, if schools have done a good job teaching ICT at key stage 3 there really is no urgency about 'ensuring their ICT entitlement'  at key stage 4, especially when that experience offers little progression from key stage 3.

    This argument about getting their entitlement for ICT Capability at key stage 4 is too often an excuse to prevent them using ICT naturally in all of their learning and inflict upon them some decontextualised, low level ICT experience that is neither academic, barely vocational, certainly not professional preparation.

    What do others think about this?
  • violetriga avatar
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    Posted by: violetriga 17/04/2009 at 10:11
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    fortuneteller:

    I think that it is many times more important that pupils use ICT appropriately across all their subjects whenever it can improve their learning of that subject. Subject teachers have complained for years of the fiefdoms that are ICT departments preventing them from making use of ICT in their subject. Now that the Ofsted report is out it is a good time to look for solutions to this problem.

    The fact is, if schools have done a good job teaching ICT at key stage 3 there really is no urgency about 'ensuring their ICT entitlement'  at key stage 4, especially when that experience offers little progression from key stage 3.

    Yes students should have access to ICT facilities in other subjects, and teachers within those departments should have a good understanding of ICT.  However, we have a duty to ensure that all students cover the Programme of Study and leaving that in the hands of other departments is a mistake.

    You favour the dissolution of ICT to the point of there being very little (if any) discrete ICT teaching.  This includes the IT Diploma, which is just a Business Studies course with extra ICT.  Really not the way I'd want things to go.
  • fortuneteller avatar
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    Posted by: fortuneteller 17/04/2009 at 10:44
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    violetriga:
    we have a duty to ensure that all students cover the Programme of Study

    A duty, not a right. Huge numbers of schools don't fully meet ICT requirements at KS4.
    Even when this fact was recorded in inspection reports it mattered not a jot. Pupils dont die if they dont do a bit more ICT in years 10 and 11.

    Schools that are currently locking up their ICT resources for the teaching of a poor quality ICT course for all pupils - allegedly because of an 'entitlement', but really because they want the easy 4 GCSEs - need to be shamed, particularly if the consequence is that pupils don't get to use ICT in their subjects at this crucial level.  This is just an example of crazy leadership.

    If an ICT department can offer a distinctive, progressive ICT experience at KS4 that has a purpose other than ticking a box, then it deserves to have it offered alongside other subjects at this level. If a school wants to herd all pupils through an ICT course then this is a good sign that it has lost its sense of balance along with the plot.
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