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jimmydasaint:

Don't mind the bad behaviour and keep a sense of calmness thoughout. 

That is without a doubt my least favourite piece of advice. Let's not pretend that our level of distress when under pressure is a conscious decision.

MagicClass:

"Let's not pretend that our level of distress when under pressure is a conscious decision."

Yes, nobody can deny it winds you up but I think the OP was making the point that we have to remain calm regardless.

He can make it all he likes. While losing your temper is often a mistake, the only way to never be upset is to stop caring about the interests of the class or your own dignity of a human being. I'd sooner deal with the fall out from a teacher capable of losing it, than see lessons led by human sponges who exist only to soak up abuse.

MagicClass:

If you lose control you can't expect to deal with the problem effectively. Some kids love to see the teacher getting wound up - it can be very entertaining - sp I agree entirely with the message that we should remain calm.

Besides, you have to remember, in any situation you have a choice... you can CHOOSE to lose your temper or you can CHOOSE to remain calm.

I don't know what you mean by "losing your temper" but it clearly isn't what is normally meant by it. You don't choose your feelings.

MagicClass:

I think that is far more empowering than handing control of yourself over to a 14 year old who clearly has the intention of winding you up.

There's nothing empowering about acting as if being abused, intimidated or assaulted is a normal occurence, not worth being angry about.

MagicClass:

Finally Old Andrew, can I ask you a question? Are you ever positive, about anything?

The fact that you only see me being negative is because you never say anything worth being positive about. All you do is profiteer by selling bad SMTs the lie that behaviour problems are caused by the victims. I cannot be positive about that, it disgusts me.

http://community.tes.co.uk/forums/t/241870.aspx

Magic,

a perfect example of the sort of rubbish 'advice' people like you (those who blame victims for being upset at being victimised) give, that I started a discussion on in the thread (link above). You could explain why, in the thread above, you disagree with the OP but that's not your style, is it? *

My opinion is that the idea that you are 'choosing ' to get upset when deliberately wound up/ harassed/ abused is ludicrous, and excuses the behaviour by blaming the victim. This disagrees with all anti-bullying material I've ever read regarding verbal bullying. This also disagrees with the law regarding such behaviour targetted at individuals. (Harassment laws were brought in to stop this behaviour).

Just to get a flavour of if you've thought this through, Magic, some questions (for you to ignore). *

1. Do you think the laws regarding harassment, that applied in the OP in the link above, should not exist? Affer all, as you said, she could have chosen to remain calm and not get upset, couldn't she?

2. Or, if the law is sound, why does it not apply in schools? Shouldn't teachers be protected by the same laws that apply to people outside schools? If not, why not?

3. If a child is suffering very badly at the hands of repeated, daily verbal taunting, would you say the same thing to that child as you've said here? (You choose to be upset by verbal taunts, so its your fault). Remember, on average 2 children each year commit suicide because of bullying at school (largely verbal). This is a well-documented statistic, I can find evidence if you wish.

Over to you Magic.

* At this point Magic generally ignores points, questions, or even posters (as he did to me for a while). He Runs away from discussions when he is clearly getting hammered (eg the one he set up asking teachers to use 'sanctions' not 'punishments', saying he was moving house so can't continue).

Also, Magic will, instead of debating points with posters who disagree with him, insults posters and abuses them. This is a good sign that he's lost an argument but hasn't the good grace to admit it. Oldandrew and I have been insulted by him, most amusing.

(Go on Magic, prove me wrong. Let's have a proper, mature, adult debate without the ignoring or the insults).

oldandrew:

MagicClass:

If you lose control you can't expect to deal with the problem effectively. Some kids love to see the teacher getting wound up - it can be very entertaining - sp I agree entirely with the message that we should remain calm.

Besides, you have to remember, in any situation you have a choice... you can CHOOSE to lose your temper or you can CHOOSE to remain calm.

I don't know what you mean by "losing your temper" but it clearly isn't what is normally meant by it. You don't choose your feelings.

  So, if I don't choose my feelings, then I am not choosing my behaviour when they are based on those feelings.

  However, you have told me quite often that pupils choose to misbehave.  You have told me that every time pupils misbehave, they must shoulder the blame regardless of their circumstances or background.  As you said in a comment on your blog for the post 'Human Nature':

It strikes me that a mere argument that people’s actions are not really under our own control is hardly an argument against punishment.

Punishment is so obviously necessary at some level that even if moral responsibility is thrown out of the window we still might have some form of punishment...

  Are you saying that it is different for teachers?

Wow, where shall I start in answer to that lot. I'll make it brief as it's getting late...

 OldAndrew...

"There's nothing empowering about acting as if being abused, intimidated or assaulted is a normal occurence"

I didn't for one minute suggest there was. I said it's best to remain calm and in control. That doesn't mean you act as if you're being abused. Not sure how you can logically argue against that one. If you think it's better to act like a headless chicken  fine, your choice. I'm sure it's funny to watch.

"All you do is profiteer by selling bad SMTs the lie that behaviour problems are caused by the victims."

Er, not true either. You have no idea who my clients are and what I actually say is SOME problems are caused when SOME teachers cause a situation to escalate. We've all done it at times, not on purpose perhaps, but it happens.

Gary.

"My opinion is that the idea that you are 'choosing ' to get upset when deliberately wound up/ harassed/ abused is ludicrous, and excuses the behaviour by blaming the victim."

That's fine Gary - it's your opinion.

My opinion is that when something winds you up you can choose how you act/react. It's a very enlightening and empowering belief when you think about it - it means you have control. I'm not syaing you can can control situations and experiences - nobody can say for sure what will happen in any given situation (maybe Derren Brown occasionally) but you CAN control your reaction to them. If you don't you're just a slave to events and circumstance. In answer to your other questions...

"1. Do you think the laws regarding harassment, that applied in the OP in the link above, should not exist? Affer all, as you said, she could have chosen to remain calm and not get upset, couldn't she?"

No and yes. Just because she remains calm doesn't mean she doesn't deal with the situation. (???!!) - Did you think before asking that?

2. Shouldn't teachers be protected by the same laws that apply to people outside schools? If not, why not? Irrelevant. We can only deal with the situation as it is. It makes no difference what I think 'should' happen. I personally think I should be living on a sunny island and waited on by you in a grass skirt but it aint gonna happen is it?

3. If a child is suffering very badly at the hands of repeated, daily verbal taunting, would you say the same thing to that child as you've said here? (You choose to be upset by verbal taunts, so its your fault).

I haven't said it's the 'victim's' fault have I? I've merely said they should remain calm. :-) Children being bullied is a different issue to a teacher losing their temper. Do you really think it would be better to tell the victim to get as emotional and angry as possible?

To make this a bit clearer for you let me give you an analogy... When I read your misjudged posts I can either choose to get wound up by them and spend hours trying to convince you that I am right and you are wrong or... I can see it as a futile exercise and calmly ignore you. That is why I have decided not to respond to your posts in the past. You, on the other hand, chose to get wound up.