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Car Keyed on last day of school - what would you do?

Last post 04/08/09 at 18:16 by jubilee, 11 replies
Post started by ascott22 on 19/07/09 at 20:14

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    Posted by: ascott22 19/07/2009 at 20:14
    Joined on 30/08/2007
    Posts 2

    Guys,

    i needs some advice, basically my car was quite severely keyed on the last day of school. I went straight to the deputy head who called in the police, the police have a suspect and the last i heard he was being arrested as the police had two statements from witnesses.

    Obviosuly this was quite upsetting but my department and head were very supportive

    My question is what would you regard as an adequate school response in terms of punishment for this student?

    Would the school expect me to continue to teach this student in my class and do you think that is reasonable?

    and finally how would i go about getting it repaired? apprently i can claim on my union insurance is this right?

     

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    Posted by: e1whittaker 19/07/2009 at 20:51
    Joined on 29/10/2008
    Posts 324
    Hi

    What a bummer! Yes, you can claim from your union; however, it might be best to get an estimate (you'll have to do that in any event) and get the school to send it to the parents with a request for payment. If they cough up, fine. If not get on to your union.

    Whether you should continue to teach the child depends. If he (I assume it is a he - it usually is) offers an explanation, apologises (but sincerely!!) to you personally and you have a chat about your relationship (and payment is forthcoming) it may be that you should continue to teach him and re-build the relationship. If, however, he shows little or no remorse, no willingness to re-establish a working relationship then I think a 'fresh start' in another group would be a perfectly reasonable way forward.

    Note that you cannot 'refuse' to teach any individual, you are expected to work 'at the direction of the headteacher'. However, schools leaders should try to accommodate reasonable requests from teachers. I think your case would fall into that category.

    Cheers

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    Posted by: Henriettawasp 19/07/2009 at 20:56
    Joined on 07/04/2008
    Posts 3,356

    ascott22:
    My question is what would you regard as an adequate school response in terms of punishment for this student?
     

    If it's now a police matter does it need an additional school response?

    ascott22:
    Would the school expect me to continue to teach this student in my class and do you think that is reasonable?

     Depends. Did the student know it was your car ? 

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    Posted by: wheelchairteacher 20/07/2009 at 22:35
    Joined on 06/10/2008
    Posts 6
    I guess it depends on what evidence there is that "he" did it. I had a tyre slashed by a kid and it was agreed that it was best for his education to be in another group... Police in that instance were quite poor ie- neighbour saw kid bend over tyre with sharpened stick but didn't actually see the slashing take place. IF the police are presented with evidence that he did it then in my opinion: 1) He should be prosecuted (If I had my way this would be a custodial sentence and as a first offence in solitary for the duration as criminals mixing is not a good idea) 2) He should be permanently excluded- if he wasn't I am aware you have no right in law to refuse to teach a child so I would be going to the union I remember an incident where a Year 9 student was permanently excluded because he pushed past a member of staff when asked to leave the room. The police were called and he was charged with assault- that's how it should be. However we live in a culture that is obsessed with the rights of the minority so the majority suffer and a significant chunk of the majority end up being sucked into underperformance and low level disruption in the classroom as a result.
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    Posted by: ascott22 21/07/2009 at 08:42
    Joined on 30/08/2007
    Posts 2

    Thanks for the responses. To update you...the police have 2 statements from witnesses who saw the student actually do it. The police arressted the student and he made a full confession under interview. He has been realeased on bail and there is going to be a resorative justice meeting (i dont know what this is) in september. At the time of writing i will be pushing for the harshest possible punishment for the student as well as compensation for the damage caused.

     

    In answer to your questions Henriettawasp it is clearly a school matter as it happened on school property, in school time and the student it going to be dealt with by the head... the punishment i do not know....

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    Posted by: tabemeister 21/07/2009 at 09:28
    Joined on 03/09/2008
    Posts 1

     

    Good on you, hopefully he will be prosecuted and excluded, Restorative justice meetings are an American idea I believe, you meet with the offender and have a discussion on the why's and wherefores of what happened and how can we move forward type approach. They are supposed to work much better than punitive punishment as the offender has to face up to his actions and change his behaviour accordingly! I personally come from the hang em high school of thought. 
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    Posted by: teachur 22/07/2009 at 21:11
    Joined on 05/02/2005
    Posts 2,960

    "Restorative Justice" means he will not be prosecuted but you will sit and have a nice chat and he will bullsh*t an apology and basically get away with it.

    By all means, it is right for you to attempt to rebuild the relationship, if this is possible, but be sure that you insist that you want him PROSECUTED for it.

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    Posted by: e1whittaker 23/07/2009 at 09:29
    Joined on 29/10/2008
    Posts 324
    teachur:
    "Restorative Justice" means he will not be prosecuted but you will sit and have a nice chat and he will bullsh*t an apology and basically get away with it.

    My understanding is that restorative justice is as well as, not instead of, any deserved punishment. A school with which I have a connection has been using a 'restorative approach' to behaviour management in the school. In the last year they have seen an 18% reduction in recorded incidents sand a better relationship between staff and pupils.

    I believe it has a value; often young people simply do not appreciate the effect that their actions can have on people or they do not think through the effects. I have heard young people accused of car damage in my school say things like "well, it's insured isn't it? What's your problem it won't cost you anything". It's only when the victim sits and explains how they feel about what's happened that kids begin to realise how their actions affect others. Simply applying the punishment without going through the restorative process may have some deterrent effect, but will do little to affect the child's attitude of mind. Restorative justice is an attempt to prevent young people engaging in this kind of behaviour not because they think they might get caught, but because they have a better understanding of why it is wrong.

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    Posted by: krisoola 27/07/2009 at 14:12
    Joined on 18/02/2006
    Posts 23

    Hi Ascott

    I sympathise with you on this one as this happened to me last year. I'm glad your school is being supportive - mine was totally unsupportive, so I went to the police.

    Luckily there were several witnesses who saw the kids scratching my car - well, one kid was definitely seen, and the other was seen bent over the car. The first kid, a girl, said that the second kid had joined her in scratching the car, and one of the witnesses, an older child, said that the two children had boasted together about what they had done to my car. The boy's defence to the headteacher was that he had "pretended" to scratch the car so that he wouldn't look stupid in front of the girl...

    Anyway, the girl admitted to it straight away, and was horrified by what she had done. At first the boy's mother was so ashamed that she offered to pay for the full repair, but a little later she changed her tune when her delightful son cried a bucketload of tears and offered the above-mentioned excuse. The head offered no support, so I went to the police and lodged the incident. Once the girl's parents were told about this, they begged me to accept full payment for the repairs (I had obtained quotes by this time) so that their daughter would not have to be involved with the police. The girl was utterly contrite, and - this is important - had severe background issues which meant that "something had to give", which resulted in her attacking my car (ie me). I don't say this as an excuse for her behaviour, but in the utter understanding that she was troubled and misunderstood, for reasons I won't go into here.

    My dilemma was this - whether to accept the offer from the girl's parents so that a) I would be fully reimbursed and b) she would not be involved with the police, or to press ahead with getting both children charged by the police for criminal damage, possible court proceedings, and the risk of not getting any money at all in the end. This would have been due to a lack of evidence or because a magistrate or judge cannot force parents to pay for damage inflicted by their child (great justice system we have here - but I suppose you can look at it as the system recognising that CHILDREN ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS - hooray!). The police said that both children would have to be charged together - it would not have been possible to accept the girl's confession and then just to charge the boy.

    Ultimately I decided to get the police involved. One of the hardest things I've done in my life was telling the girl's parents that although I was grateful for their offer, and recognised that the girl was filled with remorse, I would still have to go to the police about both children because the boy was trying to evade justice.

    The police carried out restorative justice with the children and me. It was brilliant. I explained how the incident had made me feel (yes, children, teachers do have feelings) and the children said why they had done it. The girl didn't need the process, as she was so sorry and horrified already, but although he did not admit to it, and only "apologised" when pushed by his extremely embarrassed father, the boy ended up in tears - when he watched his father COUNTING OUT HALF THE COST OF THE REPAIRS IN TEN-POUND NOTES TAKEN STRAIGHT FROM THE KID'S SAVINGS ACCOUNT!! The girl's parents paid the other half of the repairs. Both kids had to sign a contract of behaviour, the terms of which I decided, and which was lodged with the police.

    So it was a happy ending. As a general point to note - everyone who commits a crime has one chance only at restorative justice - the police told me that it has a fairly high success rate as far as preventing reoffending goes. Although restorative justice is noted on the perpetrator's file, it does not form a criminal record, and in my opinion it can often be enough to wake a kid up and give him or her a second chance and move on without being tarred with the "criminal" brush.

    As it turns out, I was right about the girl - we now have a great relationship, and she has not been in any trouble (including general school trouble) since. As for the boy - oh so sweet and innocent - he was caught this year vandalising some school property and has since been excluded.

    Vindication!

    From my experience, I would say always go to the police. There is not reason why union insurance should pay out for the criminal damage of a student, and there is not reason why the victim of the crime should have to lose their no claims bonus on their car insurance. The child needs to pay for what they have done, and they need to realise the fact that they have committed a CRIME - just because they are a child does not mean that they can get away with criminal behaviour.

    Also, because in my case the story had flown round the school, the boy would have been insufferable and I would have looked very weak if I had not gone to the police and had let him get away with it.(And I know it sounds rather goody two-shoes, but I felt that I had a duty of care towards the children, and letting one take the flack for a joint effort on their parts would have sent out terrible messages). The day I walked down the school drive flanked by two police officers was the day the kids at the school learnt that this was one teacher you didn't mess with.

    I hope that the restorative justice process works in your case, and that you get the repair money from the kid's parents. And that the kid who did this takes this opportunity to learn that criminal behaviour has consequences.

    Good luck!

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    Posted by: garyconyers 28/07/2009 at 09:26
    Joined on 28/09/2006
    Posts 2,511

    e1whittaker:
    teachur:
    "Restorative Justice" means he will not be prosecuted but you will sit and have a nice chat and he will bullsh*t an apology and basically get away with it.

    My understanding is that restorative justice is as well as, not instead of, any deserved punishment. A school with which I have a connection has been using a 'restorative approach' to behaviour management in the school. In the last year they have seen an 18% reduction in recorded incidents sand a better relationship between staff and pupils.

    I believe it has a value; often young people simply do not appreciate the effect that their actions can have on people or they do not think through the effects. I have heard young people accused of car damage in my school say things like "well, it's insured isn't it? What's your problem it won't cost you anything". It's only when the victim sits and explains how they feel about what's happened that kids begin to realise how their actions affect others. Simply applying the punishment without going through the restorative process may have some deterrent effect, but will do little to affect the child's attitude of mind. Restorative justice is an attempt to prevent young people engaging in this kind of behaviour not because they think they might get caught, but because they have a better understanding of why it is wrong.

    Agreed. That's how I understand restorative justice - the victim is involved, and the perpetrator doesn't just 'get away with it'.

    Thanks for post and well done.

    Good luck to the OP.

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