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Making the trasition from state to independent

Last post 22/01/12 at 22:06 by Tangit, 35 replies
Post started by happy_workaholic on 19/01/10 at 19:28

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    Posted by: happy_workaholic 19/01/2010 at 19:28
    Joined on 26/01/2007
    Posts 43

    Dear Theo

    I have worked as an English Teacher in the state sector for 11 years and would like to make the transition to Independent Ed.

    I have had several management posts in the state sector such as HOD and Faculty Leader. Will this experience help me get a foot through the door? I am not seeking a management post and would be very content to be a classroom teacher. Would they be put off by my current lack of ambition (i.e. management to classroom teacher)?

     Also, what kind of questions am I likely to be asked at interview?

     Many thanks!

     

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    Posted by: Elsie Teacher 19/01/2010 at 22:00
    Joined on 03/02/2008
    Posts 175

    It is easy to move from state to private, but not the reverse. I worked in the state sector (primary) for 5 years, then independent for 3 and now, because of my previous state experience, I have been able to return to state education.

    In my experience the pros for independent were: smaller classes; motivated & polite pupils**; supportive parents*; broader curriculum- ballet, sailing, Lamda etc; longer holidays; Isis inspections rather than full Ofsted; sense of pride in the school and it's fantastic results - great public image; family atmosphere.

    As for the cons: no pension, pay increases only when the head 'felt like it;'  no regular Inset provided by the LA - felt very out of touch; pushy parents;* expected to do above and beyond- before and after care, lunch duties, often at school in the evenings, weekends and running holiday club in August; no set budgets- had to beg for resources which were very limited at my school,  independent experience not counted as far as state pay scale goes; not allowed any time off , as the cost of supply came out of the head's daughter's wedding fund!; forced to struggle in on snow days; had to wear a suit all year and all weathers; had to suck up to parents as they were 'customers,'  and so sugar coat the truth about their kids; attention seeking pupils** because they hardly see their working parents and get fobbed off with expensive gifts rather than parent time; told I could not get pregnant while working there!!!

    This was an extremely prestigious school with huge termly fees. I left 5 years ago but still feel bitter about the experience. I had 3 1/2 days off during my 3 years there and the head called me into her office to accuse me of excessive absence. I had gastroenteritis and a sick note!

    With the help of the NUT, I walked out. If you are determined to go private be aware:

    a larger school would be safer with a head/ manager who is not the owner;

    be prepared to organise your own pension;

    your pay may seem attractive at first but might not increase steadily each year;

    the state system does not recognise the years spent in the private sector, should you wish to return (Your payscale will be frozen;)

    sense of isolation - no cluster meetings ( Private schools are in fierce competition with each other!);  no LA training or resources, no LA consultants, no Uni students.

    I'm so happy and relieved to be back in the state system, which is so supportive. It felt like coming home!!! 

     

     

     

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    Posted by: clarinetguy 19/01/2010 at 22:44
    Joined on 13/08/2006
    Posts 809

    Although the previous poster makes some valid points, I feel as though there is another perspective to be heard.

    Elsie Teacher:
    no pension, pay increases only when the head 'felt like it;'  no regular Inset provided by the LA - felt very out of touch

    These are very much individual school concerns rather than factors common to the sector. The Inset we are provided with is in house rather than the LEA but we are part of a very generous pension scheme and receive pay increases in line with the mainstream sector.

    Elsie Teacher:
    had to suck up to parents as they were 'customers,'  and so sugar coat the truth about their kids;

    This is not something we do.

    Elsie Teacher:
    told I could not get pregnant while working there!!!

    As you will already know, this is illegal and not something that many schools would endorse.

    Elsie Teacher:
    a larger school would be safer with a head/ manager who is not the owner;

    This is a generally sound piece of advice, particularly if you're looking at prep schools (see the thread regarding school closures on this forum)

    Elsie Teacher:
    sense of isolation - no cluster meetings ( Private schools are in fierce competition with each other!);

    I haven't found this and have been making contacts with other schools in our area to share good practice.

    Elsie Teacher:
    I'm so happy and relieved to be back in the state system, which is so supportive. It felt like coming home!!! 

    Of course, good schools in any sector will make you feel supported and valued. It is not something exclusive to the mainstream sector.

    Elsie Teacher:
    It is easy to move from state to private, but not the reverse.

    Not always true. It is true that there are some mainstream sector heads out there with a chip in their shoulder about the independent sector. They seem to assume that the job is somehow 'easier' and that inependent colleagues could not succeed in a mainstream position. However, the majority of mainstream heads will want what the independent heads want - the very best teachers available for their school. If that's you, you'll be able to secure a position.
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    Posted by: Karvol 19/01/2010 at 22:56
    Joined on 30/06/2008
    Posts 2,625

     I feel that I must respond to the view given by the previous poster.

    I have spent 14 years working in the private sector - in fact my whole teaching career has been in 5 different boarding schools in 4 different countries, so I feel that I have some experience of the independent sector.

    Yes you can find schools that treat you like dirt. Unfortunately you can also find them in the state sector. Having a useless head is not something that is an exclusive preserve of any system.

    My question would be to the previous poster, if the school was as bad as you describe it, then why stay there for 5 years? Surely a single year without a pay increase would have alerted you to things not being quite right?

    Every school that I have worked in - and they have also been somewhat prestigious, without blowing my own trumpet - have been very particular on salary structures and benefits. They have all followed whatever the national pension agreements have been - in the UK this was the standard teachers pension that the state school teachers receive. Resources have been excellent. My current school does not have a budget for departments or activities. The philosophy is quite simply order whatever you wish to enhance your teaching - there is no cap. 

    When applying to a school do your homework - and do not be fooled by a schools reputation. Once you have been in enough schools you will get to know people who have taught in or know about most of the schools on the circuit. Use these contacts for information. However before you get there here is some advice:

    A schools fee structure will have nothing whatsoever to do with your salary structure and neither will a schools reputation. Make sure you know what it is before accepting a position.

     If a school does not feel right - for whatever reason - do not go there. Do not accept whatever an independent school may be offering you just to get your foot in the door. You may end up with your proverbial foot being crushed.

    You are expected to work longer hours in the private sector and especially in boarding schools. This is offset by enhanced pay and longer holidays. If it isn't then ask yourself why you want to work there.

    No school I have been in has ever asked me to sugar coat information for the parents. In fact the schools - and the parents - are more interested in the truth. They may not like it, but that is not the same as not wanting it. Schools thrive on good exam results and these do not occur by building up a false picture of little Johnnies abilities, only for him to fail at exam time.

    One final note of advice. Do not join an independent school because of the salary, the housing or the perceived "easy teaching". The first two will instantly discount you and the last one will hit you for six when you do start teaching. Teaching in an Independent is not more difficult or easier than a state school, just different. Behaviour is not a problem which means you really have to be able to teach the subject well. If you cannot then a hard time will be had by all.

    Good luck.

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    Posted by: LondonChap 20/01/2010 at 16:56
    Joined on 03/11/2008
    Posts 289

     Very wise words...... as per usual.

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    Posted by: happy_workaholic 20/01/2010 at 18:52
    Joined on 26/01/2007
    Posts 43

     Thank you for your informative replies. Your personal experiences have given me a lot to think about.... :0)

     

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    Posted by: cini65 26/01/2010 at 17:28
    Joined on 26/09/2009
    Posts 4

    Some rather bizarre comments from the first replier about the cons of independent education.  I spent two years in a state comprehensive in East London then moved to an Independent School in West London where I've been for the last four years.

    In my current school:

    • I have as good a pension as i had in the state school
    • I get paid more
    • I get more time off
    • I have no behavioural problems
    • I get intellectually stretched and routinely interrogated by my A-level students
    • I get full sets of homework in for all my students
    • I get INSET every year
    • I get an automatic payrise every year (though now I'm onto the upper scales, I have to apply for it every year which is a two sided A4 document outlining my contributions to the school)
    • HoDs and SMT take time out to appreciate the staffing body and personally thank us for the work we do
    • I get thanked by students who appreciate being taught
    • I get thanked by 99% of parents who are delightfully supportive.

    Every single one of those is a positive.  Maybe I've just been lucky in the school I've ended up in.  To me Independent and State are almost two completely different jobs/careers.  One gives me job satisfaction and gets me excited on Sunday evenings that I have school the next morning, the other did not.

    The only downside I would put forward is that once you move private you'll never be able to move back to state and expect similar financial rewards... but I'm of the opinion that I can't see why I'd ever want to move back to state education anyway.

    And to the same poster who claimed more demands are made of you for your time with regards to marking etc.  That is true,  but it's also worth noting that you have classes of delightful students who's work is often a pleasure to mark. 

    Don't go Independent if you want a cushty job with more money and more holidays.  Choose independent if you want to be intellectually stretched and challenged more frequently than you would in a state and be richly rewarded for it with job satisfcation (and of course money:P)

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    Posted by: TheoGriff 26/01/2010 at 21:03
    Joined on 24/04/2005
    Posts 15,708

    Some excellent points made here.

    I had one teacher who was unhappy making the change from state to independent, and moved back.  His complaint was that the students were too well-behaved and too keen, so there was too much preparation work to be done.  In his state school he wasted half or more of each lesson "playing the policeman", which required no preparation.  He was horrified to discover that what he expected to be a whole week's learning was gobbled up by our pupils in only 2 lessons.

    Nuff said.

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    Posted by: happy_workaholic 02/02/2010 at 20:38
    Joined on 26/01/2007
    Posts 43

    Thank you once again for your replies. I have decided to follow the Independent route and really hope it will be ALL that and more...

    Happy teaching! :0)

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    Posted by: athame 17/02/2010 at 12:22
    Joined on 21/01/2006
    Posts 536

    I have to say a cause of confusion on this forum is that there seem to different types of independent school.

    Theo's old one sounds so good as do Karvol's.

    Some sound dreadful.

    Mine lies in between. I have a pension and parity of pay with the state sector. In spite of it being a boarding school I can't say the duties are that onerous for non-resident staff. There is a freedom from the mass of paperwork I had in the state sector.

     However, we do have a problem with behaviour in the prep school. This problems seems absent in many of the schools posted about. Our problem is severe enough that many staff have left because of it. It may be just down to inept management.

     Possibly, I am looking to move in the future. I suppose the key is to do your homework. I fancy a more academic school as I love to teach, not police and am not afraid of that kind of hard work.

     

    Good luck to all looking.

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