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Why does it take the C of E 3 weeks to bury someone?

Last post 01/02/12 at 17:16 by leviosa, 10 replies
Post started by Smirk on 31/01/12 at 17:01

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    Posted by: Smirk 31/01/2012 at 17:01
    Joined on 31/10/2000
    Posts 985

     Just recently had to go to funerals of elderly relatives. It is the season unfortunately.

    Nothing unusual, sad yes, but mundane funerals but it took weeks to sort out the funeral.  Elderly relatives dying because they are old.

     Why is this?  How is it that Amy Winehouse,as a Jew, got buried in 3 days before the lab tests of the autopsy came back?  Surely the same law for everyone?

     This is not an anti Jewish rant.  Quite the reverse, surely it is normal people get buried in as short a time as possible.  After all Christ was even buried the same day.  Seems right to me.  Same thing for Muslims.

    If a death is unexplained- sudden death of a child, suspicious circumstances, murder, car accident, it might be logical to delay burial but otherwise why do C of E people in SE England have to wait three weeks?

    Does not encourage me to want to be C of E. Council crematoriums reckon on 3-5 days for the paperwork and bob's your uncle the funeral goes ahead.

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    Posted by: flame108 31/01/2012 at 18:26
    Joined on 25/07/2004
    Posts 734

    Being Jewish, I have always been interested in the way non-Jewish funerals can take so long to happen and always thought it was because people take time to organise things. However, from experience, it is extremely painful to sort out a funeral in one to two days. You're in a state of shock, running around from hospital to registrars and back again etc to get documents and hardly know what you are doing. Having three weeks feels like a blessing when you are in that position.

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    Posted by: Smirk 31/01/2012 at 18:52
    Joined on 31/10/2000
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     I have the impression it is all down to the priest.

    The catch with the C of E is that, being the state church, anyone living in the parish has the right to be buried in the parish churchyard or if it is full, the nearest churchyard available.

    Jewish and indeed Muslim practice seems utterly logical. Not only that, as Amy Winehouse proved, it is possible to buried within three days in the UK.  It is one law for everyone in the land, surely.

    I experienced this in the SE of England in Kent.  What shocked me more was that family members who are C of E ( and I am not a churchgoer) thought that waiting for 3 weeks for the funeral is normal.  Up in the North East with other funerals of other relatives a few years back, Non-Conformists, it was not like that.

    I don't think some C of E priests can be *rsed. The two I came into contact with via two funerals had 2 services a week to deal with on Sundays.With a house thrown in and £10K salary a year.  A hard life.

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    Posted by: leviosa 31/01/2012 at 19:31
    Joined on 24/08/2002
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    Smirk:

     

    I don't think some C of E priests can be *rsed. The two I came into contact with via two funerals had 2 services a week to deal with on Sundays.With a house thrown in and £10K salary a year.  A hard life.

     

    The operative word being some - and you've got the salary wrong and the house is only thrown in until you retire then you're scuppered. Then there's PCC meetings that go on until 10pm at night, 3 funerals in a week equals 6 visits - again usually in the evenings to fit in with people's work commitments - trust me it's not a 9-5 job and they do way more than you actually realise. A bit like teachers only working 9-3 term time ;-)

     

    Regarding the funerals side of things I am Anglican and licensed to do funerals and I can only comment on  my own experiences, but where I live (in the north) it is usual for them to take place within a week - if you wanted it the next day as long as the undertakers could do it and the family wanted that then there would be no problem. Burials are easy as you don't have to book a slot - in my experience the delay occurs in finding a slot at the crematorium that is free and suits family, undertaker and priest's diary. I reckon most of the ones I've been involved in - if it's a straightforward death - take palce on average - 4-5 days later.

     

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    Posted by: leviosa 31/01/2012 at 19:32
    Joined on 24/08/2002
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     An additional thought - a lot of parishes down south particulalry more rural ones have only one full time priest with 1 or 2 part timers helping and they are running 7 or 8 churches. This might contribute to delays I guess.

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    Posted by: flame108 31/01/2012 at 21:21
    Joined on 25/07/2004
    Posts 734

    I think it's hard comparing Jewish funerals with Christian ones - we don't get buried 'on site', we pay into a burial society all our lives, there isn't a choice of coffin or service, etc, it's very different.

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    Posted by: Smirk 01/02/2012 at 06:32
    Joined on 31/10/2000
    Posts 985

    As you say, 4-5 days seems perfectly reasonable and culturally in the norm for C of E.

    But three weeks for a death with no Coroner involved?

    In one of the parishes involved in the funerals I  am talking about there were three churches, three full time priests and 300 parishoners on the electoral roll- 0.3% of the population of the town concerned.

    Given the average age of the average C of E member- 61 and rising- the C of E is gonna disappear soon unless it rebrands itself.

    The only churches that will survive are those with large and thriving choirs.  Young kids coming to church mean their families come as well.

    In the centre of Amsterdam many churches are only open for tourists and are only very occasionally used.  Across UK the Non Conformists are going extinct.

     The next 20 years will be a telling time for the C of E.

    Another plus using a civic graveyard: they are much better maintained than church graveyards!

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    Posted by: Longford8 01/02/2012 at 07:21
    Joined on 07/03/2009
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     The delay is often not caused by the clergy. If the funeral is a cremation, then there can be a delay of a couple of weeks or more because there is no earlier slot available at the crematorium. Our local crematorium normally takes over two weeks to provide a slot for the service - and often nearer three weeks. That is a delay which the clergy cannot get round however much they want to do so.

    There is also a delay in getting the extra medical signatures for a cremation compared with what is needed for a burial. Where the burial is taking place in a churchyard, then the timing can be much shorter - I have known this to be only about 5 days. Of course there is also the question of when the funeral director can be available.

    There can, of course, be a problem fitting in the clergy diary. and co-ordinating with the diaries of family, funeral director and famil. Even the clergy cannot be in two places at once. If they already have a wedding or another funeral to officiate at - or are committed to being in school to lead collective worship, then it is clear that they cannot at the same time be taking a funeral.

     

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    Posted by: Smirk 01/02/2012 at 08:44
    Joined on 31/10/2000
    Posts 985

     These were not cremations.

    Christ was buried the day he died.

    Up North it is a maximum of a week and in the SE of England funerals are run in the same was as the trains and hospitals!

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    Posted by: dianaprince 01/02/2012 at 09:27
    Joined on 27/04/2005
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    Well not the SE England, one or two parishes in Kent.  I don't think you can say an example from one parish. My grandparents lived in the SE (herts) and it did not take 3 weeks. 

    4-5 days is hard if you are trying to arrange a particular type of service.  As Flame said in a Jewish funeral you don't need to work out readings, hymns, find an organist that is free on the same day etc. 

     I know the media likes to tell us that Christianity is on its way out, but in fact all statistics show that it is still growing- I attend what you might call non-conformist (Pioneer Church) and we are growing.  As are many C of E. 

     

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