We want most children to achieve 6+ in their writing. We want our very able children to achieve at least 8, and we are currently providing opportunities for them to extend their writing to achieve 9.

For anyone who isn't likely to achieve at least 6 there is usually a contextual reason, such as summer birthday, poor attendance, special needs etc.

To get an average of 6 points in CLL/PSED and at least 78 points overall.

And does it count if it is teacher directed but written independently? I find that some of my very able boys rarely choose to write (child initiated) and when they do it tends to be scribbled - yet when teacher directed they put in loads of effort.

Just had a visit from an external moderator who wanted all evidence towards writing scale points to be independent. That's the official line. It definitely shows what is really learned, as they're doing it without any prompts or support.

This is a little harsh on those who would never choose writing for themselves. In the end it will be your decision, your judgement that attributes each child with a score.

 it makes me laugh that reception children need to write independently and Y1 don't

 Msz - I feel exactly the same. It seems unfair that in Year 1 onwards they are taught how to write stories/poems/lists/instructions etc and at the end of the unit get assessed on what they have produced but our youngest children have to do everything totally independently to be having recognised as achieved it!

It's the same for many of the other areas of the EYFS, most children wouldn't ever choose to order numbers to 10 on a washing line or on a magnetic board. Why would there when there is exciting role play/malleable/creative/small world to engage with?! Sometimes you do have to initiate activities. Otherwise I feel you are letting the child down by not recording they can do it when they clearly can.

It's bonkers!

I suggest that there is a difference between 'independent' and 'child-initiated'.

The 'child-initiated' is not really showing an ability  - more a 'temperament' and 'preferred activity' - and overt transference of learning.

Surely it is perfectly legitimate to look at how children are progressing with writing 'independently' in that a writing scenario is established by the adult and the child is then left alone to do the actual writing. That is, no adult has prompted, or supported, the actual writing on the page even though the stimulus was introduced by the adult.

My 17 year old son wouldn't even 'initiate'  his own writing! He doesn't even do it when the teachers have initiated the writing tasks!!!!!!

But at five years old he could write two sides of A4 with immaculate, small, joined handwriting to re-write a story for example.

Oh - just to clarify, however - I don't advocate joined handwriting at five!

[edited by: debbiehep at 10:16 (GMT 0) on 5-5-2012]

debbiehep

I suggest that there is a difference between 'independent' and 'child-initiated'.

 

There is Debbie ...unless you work in EY when the evidence has to come from 80% of independent writing during CI activities but in KS1 there are those crucial words In some writing, usually with support: so they can achieve level 1 with support but they can't achieve the ELGs unless it is independent

[edited by: Msz at 10:24 (GMT 0) on 5-5-2012]

The moderator was very clear that we should provide opportunities for our children to initiate their independent writing and that that would provide us with the evidence we need to make profile judgements about what they can do in terms of writing.

I nodded but didn't say what I actually thought which is what esteemed posters are saying here.

We got the tick we needed on her form, and a box that talked about the discussion we'd had about it, so now we're left in peace to get on with what we were going to do anyway!! (Don't tell her!!)

hyssop_puppy

The moderator was very clear that we should provide opportunities for our children to initiate their independent writing and that that would provide us with the evidence we need to make profile judgements about what they can do in terms of writing.

 

Totally agree with all the comments about 'independent writing'. Has anybody seen guidelines on the new framework re how much evidence should be independent? From the reading I have done it seems that it will be down to the practitioners/school to decide. Please enlighten me if I have misunderstood.

I totally agree with all the posts here, it is ridiculous to expect children to go and write on their own without being asked to. In our F2 class we follow the RWI phonics scheme which provides opportunities for writing about pictures which is usually very, very good writing from our able children. I disagree that we are then not allowed to use this as evidence towards the scale points as the child is writing independently, sounding out the words to spell them however they need to be assisted and have the class teacher-led to initiate the writing in the first place. Obviously, there are many times which the children will write on their own if they enjoy writing however I know may of mine, particularly the boys, do not like writing and hardly write anything during our whole class teaching time either! We run our F2 class very similar to a Year 1 class as we have F1 and Pre-F classes before this and therefore many child-initiated activities have been grasped and used before they reach F2. The children have many opportunities to continue their learning during chosen-play time however their most promising and objective met work comes from when they are in a literacy or numeracy lesson.

So I need to tell them to do it and then make out they chose to lol!! I have the same problem with the boys and creative development. If they are asked to illustrate work but they choose how, is this teacher directed or child initiated?

I am so annoyed at the minute with assessment I also find it annoying that children in Y1 get directed in every activity they do and levelled on this work and children in reception have to think of something to write themelves. What a joke! I am in my 2nd year of teaching and 2nd year in reception so this year I have had a big push on self initiated wriiting I have made loads of proformas with vehichles etc 4 the boys (not stereotying much but that's what their interested in) with the girls who love drawing me pictures I have praised them loads if they write a sentece underneath this is working and now the kids (4 or them) do pics without me asking and write something. Even with all this evidence we have been told that our children aee not capable of achieving any more than 6 points in all the areas and we aren't going to give them more than that! I have a 6 children who are currently a 7 in all the areas and 2 of them who is working at point 9 in numeracy (plays addition and subtraction games independently upto 30 and knows number bonds to 12) and in literacy has written 3 stories 2 were self initiated). After a 2 hour debate with the FS manager who spends 1day a week in the 60 place unit she says she doesnlt see them doing enough self initiated writing! These 6 ch produce about 3 pieces a week self initiated and a couple of adult directed a week for a reception child I think this is enough. I was so annoyed about her comments and am feeling really down about the whole thing mainly that I have spent hours writing observations to get evidence for these high points and setting up challenged to stretch the HA children. I asked the Y1 teacher just by chance as she was walking by to level this work for me and showed her his book which is full of writing (loads of self initiated) she said he was definatly a 1C probably 1B by end of year. I am at a struggling school in Leeds and our KS2 results are very poor according to the LEA advisor our reception scores can't be this high if our KS2 results are so low. I beg to differ and was so angry I did actually argue with her!! We have a good cohort of children who are very bright. I am adamant that these children will have the points they deserve but leadership is telling me I can't'. Anyone else been told to keep their scores to no higher than 6? I wouldn't mind doing this but last year I had 2 children in my class who were working at the same level as this group of 6 and I have heard the y1 teacher saying they are now a secure level 2. This surely proves I know what I'm on about when it comes to levelling. Oh and leadership is also saying not to look at the examples in the FS handbook!!! Sorry this is so long it shows how peeved off I am.

How do your school set targets for children in KS1 and KS2? In the past, our foundation point scores have had a direct impact on the levels children were expected to achieve at the end of KS1. Any child with 8 or 9 HAD to get a level 3. Of course with natural peaks and troughs this did not always happen so it was in our interests to keep scores low. The same thing happens with KS1 sats. We don't give a level 3 (even if chn achieve it in tests) unless they are working way way above a 2a. A level 3 means they have to get a 5 in Y6. This year they have realised that foundation profile points bare no correlation to qca point scores so children will be re-evaluated at the start of Y1 to give them a baseline and set their target. Just wondered if this is why you are having your hands tied behind your back?

debbiehep

I agree there isn't any logic to it !