Forums

Avatar

TES Opinion - Forum

Join hundreds of other teachers commenting on the latest news stories and generally letting off steam in the TES Opinion Group.

Members 13282 Total Posts 541724
Please enter a number between 1 and 3 Page of 3 »

How bad do you have to be to fail your PGCE/NQT?

  • post reply
    I can think of only one failure in 16 years with regard to PGCE-and they did no work and then threatened to thump another PGCE'r in a meeting! I have known a couple of students whO left voluntarily too. But overall, it seems like you have to be truly awful to fail.

    I can think of no NQT who has failed, in my experience of teaching over the same period.
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    I know of one who failed PGCE. Totally barking bonkers mad.
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    NQTs are advised to get the hell out and start at a new school if they're in danger of failing...
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    Three students failed the PGCE year I was in and they were not that awful.

    One resat in Sept by redoing a teaching practise and another did not resit hence failed but has been teaching abroad in various schools as a teacher for nearly a decade.

    Another failed and has since requalified by doing their probation later again starting in Sept. Her reason her dad died and failed her last placement.

    What I think is terrible is the amount of people who go into primary teaching with a scraped Maths Standard grade.

    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    Is the OP serious, as the question is overly-simplistic IMO.

    I failed my PGCE, re-took it in a different school and thrived!

    (Or does the OP not think that the school itself, in particular the way the pupils behave, is significant?)




    On a similar note I decided to get out of teaching two terms into my NQT year due to classroom management problems. I took a supply job in a 'more difficult' school, did the same things but found they worked!!
    Used the references from this school to get another job and taught happily for more than a decade, being considered a 'strong' teacher.
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    Four or five failed their PGCE in 1979 when I did mine. Since then I've known one who gave every impression of being in the Hitler Youth and thinking all inner-city kids should be gassed, and treating them to the frustration that he couldn't gas them personally [yehIknow some us had a certain amount of sympathy but prudence etc]; one IT woman who pitched her lessons at a height so far above what KS3 kids could understand and crammed far too much into each lesson, then carried on doing it after she'd been told; and my own Tech student whose final practice made me wonder how she'd managed to progress to a final practice. I felt really bad failing her but she was clueless.

    So not so many really in a lot of years.
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    I have known people leave and people re-take a term, but never someone turn up on results day and fail.

    Universities are about money. And to attract students they need good pass rates. I would be interested in a PGCE course director's opinion.

    I had a GTP a few years ago. I wanted to fail them, but the school wouldn't let me. In the end they went anyway.
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    Fairly high drop out rate when I did mine. They tended to be 'advised' that it wasn't for them. Advice was generally right. They were the ones who were highly likely to fail.
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    BTW has that thread with the failing PGCE student been pulled for some strange reason? I can't find it anywhere.
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    isnt the failure rate <1%
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    But what is the dropout rate?
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    Doesn't matter really if they only stay a few years. Plenty more where they came from [useless degree; bursary].
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    Just because you manage to get QTS means you're 'pretty pedestrain'. I think this is an extremely limited/biased opinion, based on your experience only and unfair to all hard-working students.


    I've mentored plenty of student teachers; some average, some excellent and one appalling. I tried every way which to get her failed. Not because I'm vindictive, but because I really thought she shouldn't be in charge of a class. Her course tutor agreed. The assessor came in. She was passed.
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    Where is that damned thread with the failed PGCE student? Was it definitely pulled or am I just not seeing it?
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    It's pretty hard to fail. I combined PGCE with second year of LLB (part time but same amount of exams), and I walked out of second teaching practice with a merit - equivalent 2.1.

    That said, if you have a set of c*cksuckers in a placement as mentor/fellow teacher, you can fail.
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    Interesting... a similar case is actually going on.

    For some reasons, a course leader can't stand a student teacher. The truth recently came out about the extent of the course leader's defamatory references... the student found out... The student is suing - only talk to the university via a solicitor ... this will certainly be an "out of court" settlement to avoid any bad publicity to the concerned university.

    From this story, I will say that it's a real shame that kids will not have the chance to have this brillant teacher: the student is moving to - an eye watering - over £100000 job in industry.
    I really wonder what should be more important : putting brillant teachers into the classrooms or letting some inferior course leaders assuaging their jealousy.
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    But what about teachers who are given the job of being mentors? Is there any training? Is there any assessment of their effectiveness or ability? What if THEY are completely unsuitable to be placed in a position of mentoring a PGCE student and deciding whether they be allowed to pass placement or not? There is nothing. Not one thing in place to regulate the mentors and so it is really a lottery. Get placed with a great mentor and life's great. Get placed with someone with impossible standards and it is very difficult to say the least. I so well remember how diverse the mentoring was on my course. Most were great. Some were really not and because of the shortage of placements it was tough luck.
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    I work on a PGCE programme and have done for 10 years or so. The fail rate is low not because we are soft, but because it is actually difficult to get on the programme in the first place. The application to interview/acceptance rates vary, but in general we get far more applications than we have places. There is about a 25% rejection rate before interview. At interview we also reject, that is about 10%. Once on the programme then yes the chances of failing are low, this is mainly because we try to get those who are not suited to teaching to permanently withdraw. Failure is also not a simple thing. You may fail on different aspects of the course. For example a trainee may fail an academic component, but with excellent teaching in schools could be awarded QTS but not a PGCE. They could fail a teaching placement then we are obliged to offer a resit (we also offer resubmissions for academic components as well). This could be 6, 8, or 12 weeks depending on the recommendation of the tutor and school.

    Some trainees this year will fail because they do not pass all three skills tests. We can no longer recommend QTS unless and until all three tests are passed.

    We are not just about money - in fact teacher training is often loss making for universities and they would rather ditch it if given a chance in favour of making money from overseas students and research funding.

    All the tutors I know, myself included, do not want poor teachers entering the profession. It is bad for the children and stressful for the poor teacher - this isn't a profession where if you bumble along you can survive quite happily.

    OFSTED grilled us earlier this year because our drop-out rate was apparently too high. We said tough, if we don't think that the student will make the grade it's better for us schools and them if they rethink their career! It probably cost us the difference between a grade 1 and a grade 2. Tough, I know that we produce good teachers who stay the course and stay in teaching - that's what matters!
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    Barries: 'I think that offers evidence for my position not against it.'

    I don't think so.

    As I've said - I've had the pleasure of mentoring some excellent beginning teachers. And this failing one certainly didn't keep a low profile, although she was often noticeable invisible.
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply
  • post reply
    All that is fair comment and my PGCE was actaully very good - the tutors were really inspirational. The one thing that concerned me as being questionable was the diversity of mentorship. Some of the students were dropped into hell. Others had great mentors.

    Do you find it difficult to place students?
    As a result, are students sometimes placed with mentors who are not suitable? What measures are in place when a mentor behaves poorly?
    Posted
    Please Log in or Join this group to replyReply