What level of responsibility should students take for their own education?

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What level of responsibility should students take for their own education?

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    In evidence to the education select committee, Prof Wolf, an adviser to ministers on vocational education, said university tutors were increasingly complaining that first year students were not ready for their studies, despite “the ever increasing number of people with As”.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/9022706/Easy-A-levels-leave-students-ill-prepared-for-university.html

    In efforts to increase exam results and meet targets, schools do more revision sessions outside of school hours or during lunches. We create revision schedules and notes for pupils. We spend a large time looking at exam techniques.

    Are we creating the monster? Particularly from GCSE?

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    brambo

    In efforts to increase exam results and meet targets, schools do more revision sessions outside of school hours or during lunches. We create revision schedules and notes for pupils. We spend a large time looking at exam techniques.

    For the most part, certainly where I work, if they bothered to pay attention, complete classwork and homework, there would be no need for these extra lessons.

    I enjoy extra lessons when it is for pupils who wish to do that bit extra or who genuinely need extra help.  However, I refuse to give up my time, either after school, at lunchtime or in the holidays for the pupils who don't bother to pay attention in the lesson.

    brambo
    Are we creating the monster?

    We are creating people who expect us to give up our time at the drop of a hat at a time when it suits them.

    The kids who don't pay attention are usually the ones who claim "Mrs LT doesn't help us"

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    brambo

    In evidence to the education select committee, Prof Wolf, an adviser to ministers on vocational education, said university tutors were increasingly complaining that first year students were not ready for their studies, despite “the ever increasing number of people with As”.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/9022706/Easy-A-levels-leave-students-ill-prepared-for-university.html

    In efforts to increase exam results and meet targets, schools do more revision sessions outside of school hours or during lunches. We create revision schedules and notes for pupils. We spend a large time looking at exam techniques.

    Are we creating the monster? Particularly from GCSE?

    We are supposed to be teaching them to be independent learners and then counter-mine that by doing loads of extra revision classes / extra help etc. I have always helped pupils but the problem is that it has now got out of control and it is driven by league tables. Because the pupils get help they don't see the value of independent learning. We then have the problem mentioned in the article.
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    langteacher

    brambo

    In efforts to increase exam results and meet targets, schools do more revision sessions outside of school hours or during lunches. We create revision schedules and notes for pupils. We spend a large time looking at exam techniques.

    For the most part, certainly where I work, if they bothered to pay attention, complete classwork and homework, there would be no need for these extra lessons.

    I enjoy extra lessons when it is for pupils who wish to do that bit extra or who genuinely need extra help.  However, I refuse to give up my time, either after school, at lunchtime or in the holidays for the pupils who don't bother to pay attention in the lesson.

    brambo
    Are we creating the monster?

    We are creating people who expect us to give up our time at the drop of a hat at a time when it suits them.

    The kids who don't pay attention are usually the ones who claim "Mrs LT doesn't help us"

    Very true. Only last week I told a pupil that if he didn't attempt homework or pay attention in class then I would not allow him to attend my revision classes after school. He told me 'you cannot do that'. My reply was I can refuse to teach who I like in my own free time!! He seemed shocked.
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    langteacher

    brambo

    In efforts to increase exam results and meet targets, schools do more revision sessions outside of school hours or during lunches. We create revision schedules and notes for pupils. We spend a large time looking at exam techniques.

    For the most part, certainly where I work, if they bothered to pay attention, complete classwork and homework, there would be no need for these extra lessons.

    I enjoy extra lessons when it is for pupils who wish to do that bit extra or who genuinely need extra help.  However, I refuse to give up my time, either after school, at lunchtime or in the holidays for the pupils who don't bother to pay attention in the lesson.

    brambo
    Are we creating the monster?

    We are creating people who expect us to give up our time at the drop of a hat at a time when it suits them.

    The kids who don't pay attention are usually the ones who claim "Mrs LT doesn't help us"

    Without doubt.

    We have a host of pupils that are "failing". That is, they are not expected to meet their targets. The fact that most on the list do not bring equipment nor books, do not do homework, are not punctual and often have poor attendance is beside the point.

    It is us that are failing them we are told. They are turned off education because of what we do. We are seen as failing them. Not that they are failing themselves. We give them extra tuition in 1-1 sessions. We reduce their timetables. At no stage do we create a situation where the pupil must take some responsibility.

    How are we creating youngsters that are ready for work?

    What life skills are they receiving with all school's intervention techniques?

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     I am expecting something similar and a screaming parent to boot.

     Coursework deadline is 3 weeks old (actually there have been at least 5 interim deadlines also missed) and still there is no sign of it.

    I wonder what would happen if I just forgot to remind him again and again and again.... he now only has 4 days before it will be too late, official exam board deadline gone!

    Doubtless I will be blamed for not having helped him! He is 16 not 6 probably won't be well received as a response!

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    The Pobble

     I am expecting something similar and a screaming parent to boot.

     Coursework deadline is 3 weeks old (actually there have been at least 5 interim deadlines also missed) and still there is no sign of it.

    I wonder what would happen if I just forgot to remind him again and again and again.... he now only has 4 days before it will be too late, official exam board deadline gone!

    Doubtless I will be blamed for not having helped him! He is 16 not 6 probably won't be well received as a response!

    Yet due to the pressure of meeting targets you are not allowed to make the point become a real-life lesson.

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    SO, SO true. I remember at parents evenings parents asking for me to provide extra work. My usual answer was that if their little darling did the work set, there wouldn't be a problem! This was usually met with widce-eyed amazement. These were the same parents I had telephoned, sent letters to, had had the HoF 'phone etc. On many occasions I have just refused point blank-with my HoF's blessing-to provide extra in these circumstances. Why the giddy aunt should I?

    When I was at Teacher Traing College in the dark ages, we were told that education was made up on a triangle-teacher, pupil, parents and all three parts had a very important job. Recently, it would appear that the full responsibility is with the teacher!  The sad fact is that some teachers are killing themselves to get kidcs to their target grade with little or no help from those kids or their parents. SLT are, in many/most cases responsible because they are being 'attacked' from above.

    Wouldn't it be fantastic if for just one year, we allowed the non-active students to just sink or swim? Then, those workers couls get a real sense of achievement.

    If only!

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     I have a plan.

    We take a score for each grade to give each student an overall score.

    Nothing new, I grant you.

    We then "rank" all students in one massive table. What's that, Little Johnny? There are 65,000 16 year olds who did better than you? Should have listened, shouldn't you?

    It's time to give the kiddies a sense of the league table blues...

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    Compassman
    Only last week I told a pupil that if he didn't attempt homework or pay attention in class then I would not allow him to attend my revision classes after school. He told me 'you cannot do that'. My reply was I can refuse to teach who I like in my own free time!! He seemed shocked.

    sadly some SMT will not support you in that either!

    Certainly one of my colleagues had to completely withdraw from offering any of the sessions that ha had run for many years because of a useless head (happily she resigned last summer after the worst ever results!)

    Just two years of withdrawing all the extra endless support at a national level (unions!) would return much of the workload to pupils!

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     Sweet dreams are made of this.....

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    The Pobble

     I am expecting something similar and a screaming parent to boot.

     Coursework deadline is 3 weeks old (actually there have been at least 5 interim deadlines also missed) and still there is no sign of it.

    I wonder what would happen if I just forgot to remind him again and again and again.... he now only has 4 days before it will be too late, official exam board deadline gone!

    Doubtless I will be blamed for not having helped him! He is 16 not 6 probably won't be well received as a response!

     

    Last year, I had a student who plagiarised a pice of her coursework (a film review, she'd found one on line and taken several paragraphs from it, mixed in with her own work as though she exppected me not to notice). She was a C/D borderline kid. I gave her a chance, I tore up the work and told her the deadline was in a fortnight. She had until then to re-produce her work for me, this time ALL her own, and hand it in.

    I reminded her nearly every day for two weeks. I told her to email it to me; bring in a USB and I'd print it off for her; stay back after school to get help with it if necessary....all offers were ignored.

    On the day of the deadline, she was absent from school. I called her house, no response. The day after the deadline (internal) I emailed her again, giving her instructions on how to send it to me as an attachment. It was the holidays, but the internal deadline was on the Friday and we were moderating on the first Monday back before sending off the marks to the exam board, so if the work was emaild to me, I could mark it and take it into school and place it in her folder ready for moderating. No reply from the girl.

    When I returned to school after the holidays, I was called into the DH's office where I was accused of harrassing the pupil and sending 'inappropriate emails'. A print screen was produced of my email which was taken totally out of context  - the DH suggested it actually sounding like I was doing her special favour and was grooming her (those words were used, I kid you not). A statement from the poor girl was produced, saying how horrid Miss Smith was for bullying her about her coursework.

    When I suggested the girl was attempting to get me into trouble, thus ensuring she could still hand in her coursework LATE, I was told that there was no way this was the case.

    What I'd done in the meantime was go to the girl's Media Studies teacher and ask for a piece of work that vaguely met the criteria. We photocopied it and put it in her English folder. The DH's response, "So if you knew you could do that, why did you need to harrass the poor girl?".

    Errrrrrr, because it's called CHEATING? To give her the chance to actually produce her own work instead of the staff having to run around after her to make sure she didn't fail?

    I kid you not....THIS is the extent to which children have no responsibility for their own grades or learning.

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    The child needs the real option of failing a class and having to repeat it.   Until then, everyone will be working hard except the student.  

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    Eva_Smith

    The Pobble

     I am expecting something similar and a screaming parent to boot.

     Coursework deadline is 3 weeks old (actually there have been at least 5 interim deadlines also missed) and still there is no sign of it.

    I wonder what would happen if I just forgot to remind him again and again and again.... he now only has 4 days before it will be too late, official exam board deadline gone!

    Doubtless I will be blamed for not having helped him! He is 16 not 6 probably won't be well received as a response!

    Last year, I had a student who plagiarised a pice of her coursework (a film review, she'd found one on line and taken several paragraphs from it, mixed in with her own work as though she exppected me not to notice). She was a C/D borderline kid. I gave her a chance, I tore up the work and told her the deadline was in a fortnight. She had until then to re-produce her work for me, this time ALL her own, and hand it in.

    I reminded her nearly every day for two weeks. I told her to email it to me; bring in a USB and I'd print it off for her; stay back after school to get help with it if necessary....all offers were ignored.

    On the day of the deadline, she was absent from school. I called her house, no response. The day after the deadline (internal) I emailed her again, giving her instructions on how to send it to me as an attachment. It was the holidays, but the internal deadline was on the Friday and we were moderating on the first Monday back before sending off the marks to the exam board, so if the work was emaild to me, I could mark it and take it into school and place it in her folder ready for moderating. No reply from the girl.

    When I returned to school after the holidays, I was called into the DH's office where I was accused of harrassing the pupil and sending 'inappropriate emails'. A print screen was produced of my email which was taken totally out of context  - the DH suggested it actually sounding like I was doing her special favour and was grooming her (those words were used, I kid you not). A statement from the poor girl was produced, saying how horrid Miss Smith was for bullying her about her coursework.

    When I suggested the girl was attempting to get me into trouble, thus ensuring she could still hand in her coursework LATE, I was told that there was no way this was the case.

    What I'd done in the meantime was go to the girl's Media Studies teacher and ask for a piece of work that vaguely met the criteria. We photocopied it and put it in her English folder. The DH's response, "So if you knew you could do that, why did you need to harrass the poor girl?".

    Errrrrrr, because it's called CHEATING? To give her the chance to actually produce her own work instead of the staff having to run around after her to make sure she didn't fail?

    I kid you not....THIS is the extent to which children have no responsibility for their own grades or learning.

    Wow.

    It seems more and more that SMT have forgotten that schooling is about education. Whether that be real-life lessons or otherwise. In the "big wide world" of employment, such actions by the girl would lead to being fired.

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    Why should they care? The trouble is, it is worse for the teachers than for pupils if they fail. Pupils can take subjects again at college and those I have spoken to don't seem bothered at all - whereas when the numbers are crunched and we have that first staff meeting after the results, it is the teacher who gets all the grief from his/her line manager, and so it goes all the way up the hierarchy.

    I am old enough to remember when if you gave an after school class it was considered to be doing the pupils a great favour. Now of course it is just expected as part of your working day.

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    Eva_Smith, I'm gob smacked and rendered speechless by your post!

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    Well, that's one way to ensure teachers don't go the extra mile for pupils. I'd be referring every pupil who missed a deadline to SMT from now on as they have such a clear idea of just when asking for coursework becomes grooming!
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    kittylion
    Why should they care? The trouble is, it is worse for the teachers than for pupils if they fail. Pupils can take subjects again at college and those I have spoken to don't seem bothered at all - whereas when the numbers are crunched and we have that first staff meeting after the results, it is the teacher who gets all the grief from his/her line manager, and so it goes all the way up the hierarchy.

    I am old enough to remember when if you gave an after school class it was considered to be doing the pupils a great favour. Now of course it is just expected as part of your working day.

    Yeah, when I sat my O levels, at lunch the teachers were all in the staffroom. If you disturbed them they might grudgingly respond. Lunchtime was their time. After-school was for detentions and marking.

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     I let one fail a few years ago. Well, I phoned her as she was sunbathing in her backgarden to tell her that if she emailed it to me within the hour I could just about get it graded in time. She didn't bother and then blamed me. Unpleasant child thoroughly deserving what she got.

    This one.... well, I don't know. I will do what I can and despite the urge I imagine I will go to the wire for him. And again will be blamed.

    Such is the lot of a teacher today!

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    The Pobble

     I let one fail a few years ago. Well, I phoned her as she was sunbathing in her backgarden to tell her that if she emailed it to me within the hour I could just about get it graded in time. She didn't bother and then blamed me. Unpleasant child thoroughly deserving what she got.

    This one.... well, I don't know. I will do what I can and despite the urge I imagine I will go to the wire for him. And again will be blamed.

    Such is the lot of a teacher today!

    Or just do what a teacher at school does and make up the marks then ensure that coursework gets up to that grade by doing most of the work himself.

    I kid you not.

    It has infuriated some pupils whom meet the deadlines.

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