Do teachers get paid for holidays?

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Do teachers get paid for holidays?

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    Hi

    Really excited as I have just been accepted onto a Primary PGCE course. I'm not sure though, when (fingers crossed) I qualify, would I get paid for the time that I wouldn't spend in schools for holiday? In my present role, I have 6 or so weeks paid holiday - is this similar to teaching, and any holiday over that is unpaid??? I can't seem to find any definitive answers on a google search.

     

    Many thanks.

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     You get an annual salary, i.e. you are paid for the whole year. So, yes, we do get paid for the holidays. Some may say we earn it by working more during term time than other jobs. So over a year it all evens out. You also need the holidays because you work hard during the terms.

    Congratulations on your PGCE course.

    PS some teachers get summer holiday jobs (or mark exam papers), and so get paid a double salary over the summer!

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    Depends on what contract you have. If paid by the hour, on supply or taking up a maternity leave cover it is unlikley you would be paid for holiday periods. If full time and permenant, then yes, for all 13 weeks worth of holidays you are paid as part of your annual salary.
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    13 weeks holiday!

    Where is that in STP&CD?

    There are no holidays specified in STP&CD. Therefore, it could be assumed that all teachers are entitled to is the statutory minimum of 28 days.

    The fact that we only have to be in school for 195 days in a year does not get away from the fact that teachers are expected to work beyond that and over and above 1265 hours.

    Extraact from STP&CD 2009

    In addition to the hours a teacher is required to be available for

    work under sub-paragraph 4 or sub-paragraph 6, as the case may

    be, a teacher must work such reasonable additional hours as may

    be necessary to enable the effective discharge of the teacher’s

    professional duties, including, in particular, those under paragraphs

    72.1.1 and 72.1.3.

    74.14 The employer must not determine how many of the additional hours

    referred to in sub-paragraph 13 must be worked or when these hours must be worked.

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    But you can only be directed to work your 1265 hours over the 195 days you are contracted for.....

    195 days = 39 weeks.....

    52 - 39 = 13 weeks....

     

    It is up to teachers how they manage this time and whether they chose to or need to 'work' during this vacation time.  Personally, I don't.  I manage with working through lunch, my non-contact time or the extra hour after school.

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    I always say we get paid DURING the holidays, not for the holidays.

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    Tom Clancy has a point. I think teaching must be one of very few, if not the only profession where holiday entitlement is not specified in terms and conditions.

    Daisylot, if you can get everything done in the times you mention then you must be incredibly well organised, work in secondary, or do the minimum to get by. No insult intended, It's just that in nearly 30 years in the profession (primary and middle) I have never come across a decent teacher who could get all their work done in the times you suggest.

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    Thanks Blackdog... no insult taken. I am very systematic and do work in secondary. Some colleagues choose to have a cuppa and a sit down in non contact time, I plan exactly what I have to get done and use my time as fully as a can - It is a personal choice. It hasn't always been so 'peaceful' but thorough planning and prep in the first 4-5- years of teaching does mean that I have most things set, ready to go and tweakable when needed now. This means I can offer more extra curricular wise as I don't have to survive week to week and rarely take work home.
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    As a colleague has already mentioned, you are paid during the holidays because your annual salary is divided up into 12 x monthly blocks. You will not receive and are not entitled to holiday pay. It is paid this way to make it convenient for teachers to budget. You are only paid for the 1265 hours you work as directed time. Thus you are free to find temporary employment in the holidays..if you have the energy! Teachers on temporary contracts and supply are paid differently.
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    juini
    You are only paid for the 1265 hours you work as directed time.

    Not true. These is merely the current limit on the hours which the headteacher may direct (tell you what to do) your work and is usually taken up by mostly teaching and then meetings.

    You are paid to carry out the duties specified in your contract and therefore expected to work as many hours outside the 1265 as necessary.

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    Middlemarch.....if there is no limit on the amount of hours you could be expected to teach beyond the 1265 hours, what in the name of god is the point of the teachers' terms and conditions contract?

    I realise that it determines other things that a teacher does including pay and conditions of service, but effectively you are saying that there is absolutely no restriction on the number of hours. 

    What would an employment lawyer say about our contracts I wonder?  

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    chuk
    Middlemarch.....if there is no limit on the amount of hours you could be expected to teach beyond the 1265 hours,

     

    There is a limit. Teachers must work such "reasonable additional hours" so as to discharge their professional duties. So the limit is down to reasonableness.

     

    chuk
    What would an employment lawyer say about our contracts I wonder?  

    Not very much. Teaching is a salaried profession.

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    juini
    ou are only paid for the 1265 hours you work as directed time. Thus you are free to find temporary employment in the holidays..if you have the energy!

     

    Middlemarch is correct.  The DT hours do not constitute the entire contracted time of a teacher.

    Also, there is no law against anyone taking other work in their holiday periods, temporary or otherwise.  You can work elsewhere at weekends throughout the year if you so wish and on any day when not directed to be doing school business.

    Teaching is essentially a job where there are no contractual limits on work time. What are reasonable hours beyond the 1265 DT hours for a full-timer, is up to individual teachers to decide.  Everyone has their designated workload and those with more experience or those who are more organised/more decisive, might complete everything in a shorter period of time. 

    Some teachers are constantly tweaking plans and others will say 'enough is enough' and down tools after a specified time of working off the premises.

    A teacher at my daughter's Primary school in the 1980s never wanted to take work home.  She had no children herself and was at school as soon as the caretaker unlocked the door.  She'd done 2 hours work before most other staff arrived.  If that wasn't enough to complete all planning and marking, she stayed on until 5 or 6 o'clock and always had evenings nad weekends to do her own thing, with no school clutter at home.

    My sister-in-law, who was teaching when her children were little, has stayed in the routine of leaving school at the earliest opportunity each day.  She has some down time at home, has an early dinner and then starts on school work at home from 6pm - 8 pm, followed by more leisure time and bed after the 9 o'clock News.

    I was more erratic when I was in longer-term positions in schools.  I did things when the mood took me as then it took me less time overall.  It meant that sometimes I worked through lunch breaks, sometimes got to work early and/or left late and sometimes worked in the evenings, weekends or parts of the holiday periods.

    I often found, though, that what was to be time planning or marking ended up being spent writing up reports on unruly pupils!

     

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    chuk

    Middlemarch.....if there is no limit on the amount of hours you could be expected to teach beyond the 1265 hours, ...

    You can't be expected to *teach* more than 1265 hours. The 1265 covers contact hours, ppa, meetings... What it doesn't cover is the extra prep, marking, stuff you can do whenever or wherever you want. You still have to do it, but you can't be directed where or when.
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    blackdog99

    Tom Clancy has a point. I think teaching must be one of very few, if not the only profession where holiday entitlement is not specified in terms and conditions.

    Daisylot, if you can get everything done in the times you mention then you must be incredibly well organised, work in secondary, or do the minimum to get by. No insult intended, It's just that in nearly 30 years in the profession (primary and middle) I have never come across a decent teacher who could get all their work done in the times you suggest.



    There is a different way but the UK is funny... when I taught in the states I had way more time to focus on the individual, their assessment day by day was far easier to monitor bc I taught the same exact lesson 3 times a day (double block) to 3 non-differentiated groups. It sometimes annoys me that the independence in learning they had compared to my students in England (across at least 3 different schools) I could rock thorough a piece of TA a night for 100 of them a night easily!
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    jubilee
    You can work elsewhere at weekends throughout the year if you so wish and on any day when not directed to be doing school business.

     

    Subject to Working Time Directive.

    Which may mean informing your main employer as they are responsible if you go over the legal limits.


    Best wishes

    ___________________________________________________

    Meet Theo on line on the TES JobSeekers Forum, every week in print in the TES magazine, or in person at one of the TES Careers Advice Service seminars or individual consultations

     

     

     

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    So, if you take 39 weeks x the 48 hour limit, that gives a total of 1872 hours. Take away the 1265 hours directed time, leave teachers with 607 hours within the Working Time Directive limits. I work that out to be about another 3 hours a day.
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    I think the working time directive applies to the average number of hours per week. How this pans out I am not too sure, but I suspect that it would be over more than the 39 weeks we can be directed for. Also, workers can choose to work for more than 48 hours per week. Of course, that precludes the school from putting pressure on us to do so.
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