Did MR state at the start of the meeting that its 'contents' were private and confidential?? How many people made notes on paper as the meeting progressed, or perhaps just remembered what he said and then passed it on to colleagues later?? 80 people at meeting is NOT private I would suspect in most reasonable peoples view! This of course is just an overt instance of the bullying and thinly veiled threats emanating from MR and aimed at teachers for some considerable time now. The Stalinist State mentality is alive and well - ranks close and it gets AS's backing. Question is how did MR get to know about the 'secret' recording?? Who grassed KR up?? It will be interesting to see who gets his job!! From the article ... 'Mr Russell said there had been a "breakdown of the relationship" that should exist between a minister, someone in Mr Ramsay's position and many of their colleagues.' Sounds like MR has picked an easy target from many possibles and gone for it. No doubt he has been waiting for this opportunity for quite a while. If anyone should resign it should be the somewhat flakey MR. His time will come.

And now there may be an inquiry

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20324210

kibosh

And now there may be an inquiry

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20324210

 

*Rubs hands in anticipation of MR jumping before he's pushed* Nothing will become MR more than his leaving of this job.

gnulinux

The Stalinist State mentality is alive and well...

...which is exactly why Mr Ramsay needed his super-duper Double Oh Seven secret-recording spy pen!!!

(Was it just me, or did anyone else laugh out loud when that precious little bit of info came to light?)

gnulinux

This of course is just an overt instance of the bullying and thinly veiled threats emanating from MR and aimed at teachers for some considerable time now. The Stalinist State mentality is alive and well

Glad to see your anti-establishment paranoia reaches all levels of management. Normally it's the repeating record of 'SMT and LA Managers are all out to get us' but I see you're now empathising with humble education management types who are being crucified by Government fascists.

I assume you're in favour of colleagues (senior or junior) recording each other's comments in meetings?

 

Yes - they are called minutes!

gnulinux

Yes - they are called minutes!

I think that 's deliberately missing the point. Are you happy for your meetings to be recorded with an audio recorder without prior consent?

CheesyWotsits

gnulinux

Yes - they are called minutes!

I think that 's deliberately missing the point. Are you happy for your meetings to be recorded with an audio recorder without prior consent?

No problem here. I talk nonsense all day. If I was a politician I would be aware that people are analysing what I say. Thats their job. If they cant handle it then - tough.

Yes - its ok by me! But wait, what do you mean by 'your' meetings? A meeting (more than 1 person) does not 'belong' to an individual - it is a cooperative endeavour. Perhaps MR has construed 'his' meetings as some sort of personal performance? Maybe he feels that his intellectual (lol) property rights have been infringed, or his copyrights denied by the recording? Was MR the only person who spoke at the meeting?? Has anyone else objected to the COVERT recording?? Really - life is too short to get strung out (paranoid) over such pathetic nonsense.

gnulinux

Yes - its ok by me! But wait, what do you mean by 'your' meetings? A meeting (more than 1 person) does not 'belong' to an individual - it is a cooperative endeavour.

"Your" is also plural.

Perhaps MR has construed 'his' meetings as some sort of personal performance? Maybe he feels that his intellectual (lol) property rights have been infringed, or his copyrights denied by the recording? Was MR the only person who spoke at the meeting?? Has anyone else objected to the COVERT recording?? Really - life is too short to get strung out (paranoid) over such pathetic nonsense.

OK, let me rephrase this a different way, since your hatred for MR seems to be in the way of reason. Suppose a pupil used their mobile phone to record one of your lessons (without your permission, but with the permission of the other pupils in the class) , then sent the recording to his friends. How would you feel about that?

CheesyWotsits

Suppose a pupil used their mobile phone to record one of your lessons (without your permission, but with the permission of the other pupils in the class) , then sent the recording to his friends.

That is not a valid comparison imo.

Anyway, the story appears to rumble on in some shape or form. I wonder if AS's apology about misleading figures wrt college funding is related to, or perhaps a result of, the Stow leak?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-20346445

"First Minister Alex Salmond has apologised to MSPs for using incorrect figures in relation to college funding.

Labour had asked him to return to the chamber to clarify whether he had misled MSPs during his weekly question and answer session at Holyrood.

Earlier Mr Salmond had told parliament funding in the sector was going up.

He said he had not been misleading and had used the figures in good faith. Mr Salmond added that his Education Secretary Mike Russell was also sorry."

kibosh

That is not a valid comparison imo.

Why not? A classroom is a meeting of people. The contents of the meeting are not private or secret. The people in the meeting are all privy to the information there, and that information may be useful to others who were not in attendance. Any notes taken may be passed on to those not there. We are already happy for kids to take notes and share them with their friends, so whats the problem if a pupil wanted to take notes by using a recording device of some sort - mp3 recorder, maybe?

Of course, we would object to this, because it's been done without permission. Same would happen if someone took a photo of you and posted it on facebook without your permission.

I'm almost certain that if this was a story about a manager recording a meeting with sub-ordinates without their permission that the argument would be the other way. I

[edited by: CheesyWotsits at 12:25 (GMT 0) on 18-11-2012]

CheesyWotsits

I'm almost certain that if this was a story about a manager recording a meeting with sub-ordinates without their permission that the argument would be the other way. I

Spot on!

Can you imagine the, justified, furore if this happened in a school? 

We all know what purpose minutes of meetings provide. And we all know that they are not verbatim transcripts of meeting dialogue. We've all, I suspect, been present at meetings, or in classrooms, where comments are made that we wouldn't want 'broadcast'.

If Kirk Ramsay was recording it for the purpose of circulating it to other college heads, as he alleges, why not just circulate the minutes? And if this was indeed the case... why resign?

kibosh

That is not a valid comparison imo.

Agreed. Anyone read this? ... http://www.scotsman.com/news/euan-mccolm-education-secretary-needs-to-learn-lessons-in-restraint-1-2643165

gnulinux

kibosh

That is not a valid comparison imo.

Agreed.

LOL. It's ok for others to have their words recorded without permission, but not me!!!

Read these ...
http://www.scotsman.com/news/labour-demands-action-at-scottish-parliament-to-hold-ministers-to-account-1-2643205

and

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/mike-russell-under-pressure-to-quit-after-claims-of-another-lie-1-2647901

Now eat your words ...

Kurtz32

Glad to see your anti-establishment paranoia reaches all levels of management. Normally it's the repeating record of 'SMT and LA Managers are all out to get us' but I see you're now empathising with humble education management types who are being crucified by Government fascists.

[edited by: gnulinux at 11:31 (GMT 0) on 21-11-2012]

CheesyWotsits

gnulinux

kibosh

That is not a valid comparison imo.

Agreed.

LOL. It's ok for others to have their words recorded without permission, but not me!!!

Have you been telling porkie pies again, Cheesy?

gnulinux

http://www.scotsman.com/news/labour-demands-action-at-scottish-parliament-to-hold-ministers-to-account-1-2643205

and

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/mike-russell-under-pressure-to-quit-after-claims-of-another-lie-1-2647901

It makes for 'great' reading; the back tracking, the blame, the 'knife fight in a phonebox' (dominie, I hope you realise that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery; I just love your analogy).

I sincerely hope that Kirk Ramsay is re-instated, but I fear that he may, after all is said and done, be the sole loser in this. Bah!

As I said before, despite MR's conduct, if a manager were to secretly record your meetings, then how would you feel/react if you found out? If this question was asked on the forum 2 weeks ago, I find it hard to believe that people would be so accepting of such a practice.