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Differences between universities for courses

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Differences between universities for courses

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    I'm trying to get a picture of how different university courses match up - having spoken to different teachers and PTs I'm beginning to get a feeling that there are wide variations in how students are assessed during the PGDE year. So, for example, how many essays do you have? Are they at PGDE or Masters level, and how many words? How many crits do you get? What is the lesson plan format like - is it full and detailed, does it stay the same throughout or does it reduce? How do your tutors assess you - what is the style that they use, what do the feedback forms look like? Are you clear about what is a pass, and what's a fail? If so, can you describe it! I know it's a lot, but I'm really beginning to think that all the unis do it differently and so there's no consistency in grading - it leaves open the possibility that a student who passes at one uni might be failed at another, which isn't really fair at all.
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    Can I ask why you want to know? I'd say very few students ever fail - coaching is generally given to those on the borderline and those really not suited for the classroom tend to leave after the first placement. I suspect there is a difference in how the courses are organised and assessed but in all the teachers I have known from different courses, I can't say I've noticed any patterns in competence that would suggest one university was less rigorous than another.
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    Curiosity, as much as anything. Strathclyde keep emphasising how heads always say their students are the best, and teachers I've spoken to in my subject have indicated that there's a clear difference between certain universities, tutors and also between PGDE / BEd students in how they are assessed and the levels of expectations. It just struck me that if there is inconsistency to what extent can we say that all students are at the same standard when they reach probation year if there's no consistency between the universities?
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    I think there probably is a big variation in the standard of probationers but that's as much the product of a pass/fail course as anything. Students at Aberdeen have 18 weeks of placement in two different schools. These are split in the middle so you get a couple of weeks between the first half of a placement and the second. There are two long essays, usually on educational theory and inclusion, as well as other shorter assignments for tutorials. Two crits, I think, unless there is a problem with either and then they come back to check up. It was alright as a course, not particularly academically challenging but good background for the placements which is where most of the learning actually took place. What's Strathclyde like (aside from boastful!)?
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    A good background from 2 placements at Aberdeen compared to 4 placements (one of which is over 2 stages) over 4 years at another university? Each course is different and each person should apply to the one which suits their learning style, and preferred method of progressing to be a teacher. No one course is "better". Each course is different. Each student is different too.
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    4 placements across 2 schools (secondary.) The first placement is only two weeks, so no crits, but there's at least one in each of the other three, and more if it's felt needed. Four essays, two of 4000 or 5000 words (depending if you're doing Masters or PGDE level - and the push is towards Masters.) Total time in school is 16 weeks, and in Uni 16 weeks - general feeling from this year's students is that they've learnt more in school about teaching than they have in Uni.

    grant2007
    Each course is different and each person should apply to the one which suits their learning style, and preferred method of progressing to be a teacher. No one course is "better". Each course is different. Each student is different too.

    That's kind of what I'm getting at. When you apply, you don't really know what the right one is for you. I'd have preferred a course with more exposure in school and less written bumf but wasn't aware of any differences (and couldn't find any information about it anyway.)

    One thing which I have noticed is the difference in lesson planning. I know some Unis still insist on a full-blown lesson plan right to the end, others tail off to something which is closer to what you'll do as a probationer or a fully qualified teacher.

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    amysdad
    general feeling from this year's students is that they've learnt more in school about teaching than they have in Uni.
    I think the theoretical stuff is useful but you tend to internalise it pretty quickly and forget that it's actually underpinning what you do in a classroom.
    amysdad
    I'd have preferred a course with more exposure in school and less written bumf but wasn't aware of any differences (and couldn't find any information about it anyway.)
    You just jump through the hoops to get to probation. The first term as a probationer is where the real learning curve starts!
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    I agree

    More time spent in schools is my preference, then by 4th yesr BEd you are ready for the long period of continuous teaching. Edinburgh don't require full lesson plans for every leson in 4th year to the very end but Aberdeen do!

    Research your course before starting, the information is usually there on the web somewhere- or ask on here as people are usually helpful, although always claim their uni is best!!!Big Smile

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    Hi

    I do know that all the teaching at Strathclyde Uni have more placements with more requirements than any other university in Scotland. As a B.Ed there (and have many family and close friends who have studied teaching at various institutions) I can see why Strathclyde has the reputation it does. In second year the placement is 7 and a half weeks with a  crit and at least one lesson to be taught per day (building up to a mixture of quarter then half days with full days at the end) someone I know from another university had to teach only one lesson per week during their second year placement. Yes it may be that some courses have students pass that wouldnt pass at Glasgow or Strathclyde (the two with the best reputation) but this makes it all the more difficult for them as NQT's.



    [edited by: sillybanana at 20:11 (GMT 0) on 1-5-2012]
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    sillybanana

    Hi

    I do know that all the teaching at Strathclyde Uni have more placements with more requirements than any other university in Scotland. As a B.Ed there (and have many family and close friends who have studied teaching at various institutions) I can see why Strathclyde has the reputation it does. In second year the placement is 7 and a half weeks with a  crit and at least one lesson to be taught per day (building up to a mixture of quarter then half days with full days at the end) someone I know from another university had to teach only one lesson per week during their second year placement. Yes it may be that some courses have students pass that wouldnt pass at Glasgow or Strathclyde (the two with the best reputation) but this makes it all the more difficult for them as NQT's.

    Yes, I agree more useful placements are better. At Edinburgh and Strathclyde( I have no knowledge of Glasgow) they build up year after year and lead to (in my experience) a good all round well developed teacher who is ready to teach their own class. By leaving the majority of placements to fourth year Aberdeen sometimes has students who are not "ready" for the whole day teaching they are being asked to do on placement, although I am led to believe the course is changing at the moment. Be wary though that trying to teach too many half/ full days early on means you ahve less observation time...and observations are a really good way to build on your knowledge.

    G

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    Other than reputation (is this from present and past students or Times University Guide etc?) how do you compare different degrees with different structures etc? Do the staff working at these intsitutions not make a significant impact as opposed to just the structure/number of placements?

    I'm not having an opinion or go at anyone/place etc - just trying to stimulate further discussion!

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    alxjohnson

    Other than reputation (is this from present and past students or Times University Guide etc?) how do you compare different degrees with different structures etc? Do the staff working at these intsitutions not make a significant impact as opposed to just the structure/number of placements?

    I'm not having an opinion or go at anyone/place etc - just trying to stimulate further discussion!

    Yes i am sure they do, as they do anywhere really!

    I think it is important to look at the structure of the course as if that suits you as a learner then any variety of staff will seem less important as you will be motivated anyway to find out for yourself. For example, there is no point going to a uni where you are allocated a large percentage of "invertigative research and reading of journal time" if you prefer to learn through lectures. If that is the case you would be better off going to a 9 -5 style course.

    The same applies to the number and frequency of placements!

    Of course you also ahve to like the "feel" of the uni!

    That's what I reckon - too many prospective students don't appreciate the course differences!

    G

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